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FF_Goal
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« on: September 12, 2007, 07:32:12 AM »

This counter has just executed a very bullish kumo breakout and all signs are pointing to the upside
i) kumo breakout
ii) chikou span above price
iii) leading kumo is flipping to a positive kumo
iv) tenkan line is angled upwards showing higher high with increasing volume
v) kijun line also just starts to angle upwards showing higher high with increasing volume

The only resistance in sight will be the chikou span shadow as highlighted by the blue box.
Cut loss will be either a price break below the kumo or when the tenkan line starts to slope downwards (which is a few bids below the kumo)

Hope to hear any feedback regarding my analysis. Cheers.

NOTE: The red vertical lines are 26 period cycle line. This is because I can't plot leading kumo in metastock (unless anyone here can help) so the kumo in section A (upper part of chart) actually represent the leading kumo.



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grayghost
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 04:36:02 PM »

This counter has just executed a very bullish kumo breakout and all signs are pointing to the upside

Hope to hear any feedback regarding my analysis. Cheers.

To FF_Goal:

For the following reasons, I take issue with the word “very” in your first sentence; I believe that the trade may be premature.

Kumo breakout: This is encouraging, but it needs some confirmation; likewise the flip from downward to upward. Note that the kumo is relatively thin, which makes it’s depiction of support and resistance somewhat suspect. Incidentally, I would recommend that, at least for purposes of analysis, you use a demo platform that will automatically plot the kumo, for example, Alpari UK’s MetaTrader.

Tenken and Kijun: Likewise. These indications should be taken in the context of the waveform.

Waveform: The lengthy impulsive move upward was ended in mid-July by an overlapping wave—real-body bottom of wave did not exceed previous top. The subsequent wave downward looks more impulsive than corrective, being composed of non-overlapping waves. This counter-trend ended in mid-August with an overlapping wave. The final wave going upward also looks impulsive, although it has not proceeded far enough to make a non-overlapping wave. I don’t know what pair this is—not one of the ones I regularly trade—so I can’t check previous behavior or put up my own chart with arrows and comments. But in view of the long-term Daily trend upward, I would like to see Price exceed, on a closing basis, the previous high of about 1.25 before committing to a Long trade. The potential resistance at 1.25 seems to make for an inadequate reward/risk ratio, which I would like to see be above 2.0 at the least, and preferably 3.0.

Chikou Span: While the CS has crossed upward above Price, I feel it has not yet done so with enough angle and separation to be definitive. I may be biased, but I consider the position of the Chikou with respect to Price to be very important as a gauge of momentum, and one that, as Ian has recently pointed out, should be the final arbiter of an entry decision. I want to see the Chikou cross above a falling Price, which it is doing; I also want it to punch up as far above Price, at a good angle, as it was below Price when it started to rise. Note that this condition will occur about the time Price exceeds the previous LT high. Remember, what this graphical aid is showing us is that Price previously went down about a month ago and now it is punching up fairly sharply through its previous action, so the chances are that it has good momentum.

That point—that is, when Price exceeds the previous high—is where I would go Long. This is only my own rather conservative opinion; you might go Long now and be successful, as anything can happen, but in my opinion the probabilities do not yet justify such a bullish view.

Stop-loss: Placing the SL as close as the bottom of the thin kumo seems to invite a stop-out on a minor dip. And where else would you place it? This is essentially a kumo-breakout trade, and the Ichi Wiki would put the SL below the bottom. Triggering a SL if the Tenkan turns down seems risky for the same reaqson, as the TS is a short-term measure of momentum. If a Sen were to be used as a SL here, the Kijun would seem more appropriate, but that would entail a pretty big loss if it were hit. My comment above about insufficient risk/reward certainly seems significant if you place the stop-loss that far away. So you seem to be between a rock, etc., on the stop-loss.

I would want more assurance that Price will go up, and, if it does, by a good amount relative to the amount it could go down, before I would enter Long.

Bob
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 07:03:28 PM »

Hi FF_Goal,

Good to see that you're making use of our Stocks section of the forum!

It looks like you've got all the basics in-place and have thought out your trade fairly well from an Ichimoku perspective.  I agree with Bob's assessment, however.  While the setup in your chart does meet the bare minimum requirements for a kumo breakout trade, there are some additional nuances that you can keep in mind that will provide an even higher probability trade if they are followed.  At this point, however, you are just starting out and doing a fine job - so congrats!  The nuances come with experience.  In the meantime, you've got all of us here on the forum to help you out.

Unfortunately, I have found very few charting services for stocks that have Ichimoku as an indicator.  Those that do often provide it in an incomplete fashion (e.g.: your leading kumo needs to be displayed in a secondary window). I do know of one free charting service (end-of-day data only) that provides a relatively clean version of Ichimoku, so I would advise checking them out.  There name is "Prosticks" and you can check out their charts at www.prosticks.com.  I use their Java Charts to check out stocks when I'm looking to trade equities and have had good success. 

Once you start using their charts, feel free to post more stock picks and we can help you think any possible trading setups through.

Best,

Ian
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FF_Goal
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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2007, 04:37:27 AM »

Thanks Bob and Ian for the detailed reply and encouragement. I really appreciate the prompt reply.

Hi Bob

Actually this is a local stock counter in my country and not one in the States. With regard to your waveform, I assume you are referring to that created by the candlestick closing price itself.

Actually I've thought abit about the thickness of the kumo and I am thinking that as stock is less volatile then forex (I assume), a thin kumo might also infer that the counter has undergone a consolidation phase and any kumo breakout to the upside would be highly positive. Now thinking back, I guess I have to add that a thin kumo TOGETHER with consistently high trading volume would have been a better sign that consolidation is taking place for the next surge.

As for your reasonlng for the chikou, it's something I haven't taken into consideration but will definitely do so for my future analysis.
However, since this is analysis of stock, would too steep a chikou be a warning sign as well since a steep chikou is created by the price rising up by a lot in a short time.

Finally, is your approach of going long for the counter at its 3 month high because of the following reasons
1) to have chikou as high above price as it had gone below previously and this coincidentally matches the recent high
2) not enough risk/reward from current price so its better off that it breaks its previous high

My aim of highlighting your reason for going long after it passes its previous high is because usually the near term high is a psychologically tough resistance and if broken, I will be in uncharted price region and might fall into the trap of buying at a high. Or you do take into account of the near term high when entering any long trade?

Thanks and by the way, the counter closed lower by 3 cents to 1.04 today, thus flattening the tenkan line but still slightly above the kumo.  Smiley


UPDATE: I've just read your reply at Re: EUR/CHF Swing Trade 06.17.2007 and better realised what you have been trying to say regarding the chikou punching as strongly above the price as it had gone under as well as looking out for trend (non-overlapping waves). That was a good and clear post.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2007, 05:02:53 AM by FF_Goal » Logged
freebob
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2007, 08:56:15 AM »

Hi All,

There is another free end of day provider that has the full ichimoku available as an add-in indicator - http://www.prorealtime.com/en. Once you register, you may go to the indicator web page and save into your profile as you are logged in.

Ichimoku is a great technical tool. Thank you,

Freebob
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grayghost
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« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2007, 10:22:55 AM »

Finally, is your approach of going long for the counter at its 3 month high because of the following reasons
1) to have chikou as high above price as it had gone below previously and this coincidentally matches the recent high
2) not enough risk/reward from current price so its better off that it breaks its previous high

My aim of highlighting your reason for going long after it passes its previous high is because usually the near term high is a psychologically tough resistance and if broken, I will be in uncharted price region and might fall into the trap of buying at a high. Or you do take into account of the near term high when entering any long trade?

There's no hard rule. You could go Long after an up wave forms that does not overlap the previous final down wave. That has already happened. Or you could require additionally a second up wave that does not overlap the first up wave. That would be good confirmation that an impulsive up movement has started. Further, if strong-looking resistance lies nearby, you could require that it be breached. That is what I suggested here, based partly on my feel for the waveform and partly on my fetish for a symmetrical Chikou punch-up. The fact that you would be in uncharted territory after breaking the resistance is actually good, I think, since it means there is no further resistance nearby on the chart. You're always risking buying at the top, but if other considerations--Kumo breakout, breaking resistance, Chikou punch, Tenkan above Kijun, etc.--show a high probablility of good momentum, the odds should be on your side.

Can you trust these odds? Not entirely, but I would tend to. I just read a little article in Knowledge News about Gregor Mendel. People have raised questions about whether he actually performed all the plant crosses he cited, or whether he performed certain ones and then extrapolated. At some point you have to go on faith. As the author of the article said, If you can't trust a monk to tell the truth about plant genetics, who can you trust?

Bob
« Last Edit: September 13, 2007, 09:59:00 PM by grayghost » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2007, 03:50:57 PM »

Hi All,

There is another free end of day provider that has the full ichimoku available as an add-in indicator - http://www.prorealtime.com/en. Once you register, you may go to the indicator web page and save into your profile as you are logged in.

Ichimoku is a great technical tool. Thank you,

Freebob

Hi Freebob,

Thanks for posting!

I really love ProRealTime - the service is free, the charts are gorgeous and they have end-of-day data for all kinds of tradeable instruments.  They are a top-notch charting service all-around.

The only thing I don't like is their Ichimoku indicator.  It's "funky" to say the least as it doesn't have a filled-in kumo (small detail, really) and their programmers haven't figured out how to terminate the chikou span 26 periods behind price, so it has a very ugly flat line that extends up to the current price candle.  They also do not offer a projected or leading kumo, which is a serious shortcoming.

But - if you can get around all that, they are absolutely the best free end-of-day charting service out there.

Best,

Ian

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